Question of the Day: Terrorists
Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Are all terrorists treated equal by the media?
Christian Terrorist = Militia
Muslim Terrorist = Islamofascist terrorists bent on destroying our freedoms and converting your children.
Guess not.
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23 comments:
If anyone on the pro-Gitmo front had any integrity at all, they would call for these 9 idiots to be hauled off to Hotel Cuba.
Nice point Smitty.
Do you think anyone is bitching that they were mirandized?
I may be wrong, but I think the "don't try 'enemy combatants' in the War On Terror on US soil" individuals are usually careful to stress the "enemy". Since these are US citizens, I believe most of WoT proponents would argue that they are fundamentally different than Gitmo detainees.
I'm not saying I agree with the distinction, but that is my understanding of the argument they would be likely make.
They are being called a militia, which to many people in this country, is just as bad as being a terrorist. I am also unable to find and degree of sympathy anywhere for these people...either from Christians or Militia folk. Do you think the media is somehow treating them nicely or giving them a pass?
Frankly, I am to the point where the terrorist label is approaching being meaningless and I am sick of people demanding to call certain groups terrorists and crying when they are not. The Right threw a big hissy when the Fort Hood shooter wasn't called a terrorist or even a suspected terrorist. It wouldn't have been improper to call him one, given his motivations. It wouldn't be improper to call these nutcases terrorists, though I don't see it as a big deal.
You can hardly call the Michigan Militia cheerleaders for the government. They have gone way out of their way to distance themselves from this group. I can't find a single Christian advocacy group that is expressing any kind of sympathy for these yahoos.
There is a shitload on money being poured into arresting and prosecuting these guys. If any of these charges stick, they will likely spend a ton of time in federal prison. I am certainly a critic of how the US has treated terror suspects, but I think it is just asinine to suggest that these people are getting any kind of favorable treatment anywhere.
Jay is also correct in that people that are non-citizens aren't entitled to the same rights as citizens. Over the years, and through public policy, it doesn't mean they don't have any rights, but there has always been a distinction. This is also true everywhere else in the world. I am not aware of any country in the world that treats non-citizens the same as citizens in their criminal justice system.
It is my humble opinion that Smitty is trying to point out that if these people had been Islamic and brown, the talking heads on Fox/talk radio/Beck and co. would have exploded in a terroristic cataclysmic flash, announcing the Obama Apocalypse with almost sensual fervor.
Clearly the fact that they are White and of a somewhat disturbing variety of Christian, makes them less interesting to the entertainers of the Right side of the media spectrum, ergo less excitement.
As an Oklahoman, April 19th is approaching, and I for one am glad that the Guvment is rounding up crazy knotheads like this. We don't need any more White Christians with dangerous, crazy, threatening ideas, running around as this date approaches.
Wasn't Padilla a U.S. Citizen? Wasn't he held in Gitmo?
I don't think Bob's point, and I know this applies to my point, is that the MSM is sympathetic towards these nutjobs. My bullshit political point is that the same people who scream for Fort Hood shooters and general Mooslim terrorist-types to be called terrorists are silent about these guys. There is a mold: a religious fundamentalist extremist wishing to exact violence in order to hurt and/or overthrow a government. These Hutaree guys fit that to a T...but they won't face that charge I bet.
ANd this brings me to my larger point: I agree Steve. The "terrorist" label is mostly meaningless and arbitrary. It is used to fit a political purpose and is a label that is nothing but political expediency. I, for one, trust our justice system (as do you) enough that the special label doesn't matter, nor does it matter where the Hell we hold these people. Try them. They will do decades.
if these people had been Islamic and brown, the talking heads on Fox/talk radio/Beck and co. would have exploded in a terroristic cataclysmic flash,
Bingo.
yes, José Padilla IS an American, born here and arrested in Chicago, which as best I can tell is US Territory.
He was sent to a living hell on the orders of Pres. G. W. Bush for several years before finally given a trial.
José Padilla IS an American
Corrected. Verb tense issues...
Steve:
Assuming this part of your comment is true, you have made my point:
"You can hardly call the Michigan Militia cheerleaders for the government. They have gone way out of their way to distance themselves from this group. I can't find a single Christian advocacy group that is expressing any kind of sympathy for these yahoos."
If all militia aren't bad then the guys arrested yesterday should be called terrorists to differentiate them from the nutty, but non-murderous variety of militia.
Also Steve, this a media issue, not a comment on how the government is treating them. I don't think the government is giving them special treatment, I just find it funny that the MSM calls them something other than what they are: terrorists.
I understand what you mean by the way that the media and pundits are likely to treat (or not treat) this group. However, my point was that any argument that attempts to equate them with "enemy combatants" retained at Gitmo is a pretty fat pitch for any WoT proponent with half a brain.
@ Jay...
talking heads on Fox/talk radio/Beck and co. have brains? ;)
Dang, and here I am TRYING to be good as it is Holy Week!
if these people had been Islamic and brown, the talking heads on Fox/talk radio/Beck and co. would have exploded in a terroristic cataclysmic flash, announcing the Obama Apocalypse with almost sensual fervor.
I am sure the media would have been all over that angle, but they are still getting a ton of negative press and were the lead in story in most newscasts since it broke.
I don't think Bob's point, and I know this applies to my point, is that the MSM is sympathetic towards these nutjobs.
How is the media being sympathetic? I just don't see it. Are some playing up some kind of sob story? Most of what I have seen as been pretty factual or somewhat mocking of their stupid homepage.
They have been called a "right wing Christian Militia." Right wing Christian Militia Terrorists is too awkward, in my opinion. I still don't see the desire to call it one or the other being all that sympathetic. If that was the case, then they would be called a "patriot" group or some other bullshit name.
These Hutaree guys fit that to a T...but they won't face that charge I bet.
Actually, they will. According to the indictment, they are being charged with:
18 USC 2384, which is Seditious Conspiracy. The indictment states that they were conspiring to make war against the US.
18 USC 2332a(a)2, which is attempt to use a weapon of mass destruction.
18 USC 842(p)(2), which is teaching the use of explosive materials.
18 USC 924(c)(1), carrying a firearm during and in relation to a crime.
These are all charges that have been used in regards to terrorists. Most have very long sentences and if even a few stick, these people will spend the rest of their lives in prison.
And I thought this would be the throw away post for the day.
How is the media being sympathetic?
I was being hasty and mis-worded it. The rest of my post made my point.
Right wing Christian Militia Terrorists is too awkward, in my opinion
Right. So call them TERRORISTS. Or Christian Extremists.
Actually, they will. According to the indictment, they are being charged with:
I saw that on another post that I read earlier today but after I posted my reply. I stand corrected.
I still hold that none of the Gitmo apologists are talking...hopefully from shamed embarrassment...and that I have yet to hear them called a straight-up terrorist. In fact, I think it was CNN calling them "Hatriots."
I HATE that phrase, because while "hate" is at its root, so it "patriot" and nothing these guys did was remotely patriotic, even if they thought it was.
Wow. I forget to check the blog for a day and find this bubbling cauldron of Blame America First.
:)
I agree that the media is treating these idiots rather harshly, but would suggest that the telling point here is how the right responds. For the record, I don't recall any liberals complaining that Richard Reid was mirandized, but the planned reaction from Cheney and others was to paint Obama as soft on terror when he mirandized the Christmas undie bomber. That is exposed with their silence here.
I think they should be called Christianist Terrorists OR barring that, Christianist extremists.
Seems to be resonable to me.
Wow, check out the Hutaree wedding photos:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/for_hutaree_militia_ethos_extended_to_family_life.php?ref=mblt
My favorite comment below the pix is "Nothing says 'I Do' like a concrete basement and camouflage."
We must not have been the only ones talking about this. I just saw reports on CBS and Fox that used the words terror and terrorist.
Both of those networks also went out of there way to link this group with other militias, despite there being no credible evidence supporting this link. Time will tell. CBS also talked about a major resurgence in militias. I don't claim any special knowledge of this, but that doesn't seem to be the case in MI. The MM isn't all that secretive and they claim that their membership hasn't really gone up.
One thing I have seen from some on the right is saying we shouldn't rush to judgment and let the courts sort this out. If this had been a homegrown group of Muslim terror suspects, they would have called for tribunals and waterboarding. Of course, this isn't universal, as there are plenty on the right who believe in due process.
@ Jay...
talking heads on Fox/talk radio/Beck and co. have brains? ;)
To be fair, he said half a brain. The other half being filled with fecal matter, I believe.
"This bunch doesn't look like it could fly airplanes into towers. They look like they could drive a K car through the door of a Kwikee Mart." - Rod Dreher
From CNN:
"This is a group that I would classify as neither a militia or a Christian group," said Michael Lackomar, a member of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia. "They're more of a private army or a terrorist organization or really just a criminal organization."
Reading the article in the paper (NYT) this morning and I saw that the Michigan Militia guy who dropped a dime on these assholes had converted to Islam some years back....
If they aren't already making a big deal about that and how it's is a direct link straight to Hussein Obama, they will be.
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