Taking a Look at Wedge Issues
Tuesday, September 02, 2008
In the interest of continuing the fine discourse that Steves spoke of in his last post, I would like to hear what people think of the following snippet of Barack Obama’s speech delivered before the Democratic National Convention:
I’d really like to hear from readers who land on both sides of the above issues on how this part of the speech impacted them."We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country. The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination. Passions fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers. This too is part of America's promise - the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort."
19 comments:
For me, that was one of the most moving parts of his speech, a reach-out to Indy voters, and maybe even a call to people nervous about rumors they hear about his politics. Don't be afraid; we can find common ground. Don't be afraid; I am not some crazy liberal, but instead I am a reasonable, thinking man capable of working hard to reach common ground. Just because I am Pro-Choice does not mean I want to kill babies. Just because I urge gun control does not mean I am going to take your guns away. I am anti-discrimination, not Pro-Gay. I support immigration laws that secure American jobs without breaking-up immigrant families. This is the Democratic agenda under my vision, and it's not crazy liberal talk. It bridges divides.
promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort
Those are powerful words. Sometimes, modern speech does not use that vernacular or flow. That's some Lincoln-esque speechifyin'!
Again, for me it was moving. It was also maybe the most important part of his speech intended to reach out to voters who are nervous about supporting him.
That was my favorite part of the speech. I am cautiously optimistic. Politicians always say they will build bridges and compromise, but many times it is just lip service.
Abortion is a very divisive issue. I love debate and discussion, but that is one issue that I tend to dread. So often it degenerates into 'baby killers' versus 'fundy wack jobs', which is not productive. Obama made a great point and he elaborated on in another speech. I am paraphrasing, but he essentially said that he is pro-choice but that he respects the pro-life point of view and doesn't want to change other minds. He would rather focus on areas where people do agree, such as reducing the need for abortions and lowering teen pregnancies. This, folks, is the only way to get things done.
Gun control is a hot button issue, but one that I am comfortable discussing. I am interested to see what he has in mind. He has supported gun control in the past, but has downplayed it during the election. I'd like to believe it is the result of him taking a more rational, constitutional approach to the 2nd.
He has certainly caught my attention. Now I would like to hear more about specifics.
Btw, you can refer to me as just Steve. The 's' at the end is the first letter of my last name.
"Btw, you can refer to me as just Steve. The 's' at the end is the first letter of my last name."
Sorry buddy, everyone in the blogosphere knows you as "steves" so that's what you are stuck with. I think most folks thought your last name was Steves, like that travel guy on PBS. I just respect what is written until told otherwise.
I think there is common ground, even on the abortion issue. I think the everyday person who feels opposed to abortion, as opposed to the strict, fundamentalist evangelical type, want to prevent unplanned pregnancies. Unfortunately, many fundamentalists are also opposed to contraceptives and other ways to prevent unplanned pregnancies, so the conversation is a short one. That said, Obama would not like appeal to those people, with these words, but may appeal to others who are pro-life, but more independently minded.
I hope to find that Obama is fair, compassionate, practical, and maintains his hope and ideals after being barraged by the politics in Washington, should be get elected.
This message does inspire and I really would like to find a president that inspires me to be as open-minded and compassionate in my work day as they may appear in their speeches.
That said- I applaud the message. All that remains is for the messenger to convince me that he believes in what he is saying. I mean, is that realistic? He's a politician. They lie. They play the game. It's a dog and pony show and I don't want to be the tool that forgot all that.
So you mean to say that there was a speech of some sort delivered by Obama last week? Really?
Rickey's not sure why gun control is a hot button issue. Let citizens have their weaponry, just not the kind that our soldiers get to use, the kind that spew out a maelstrom of bullets.
or:
Let citizens have their weaponry, just not criminals.
Let citizens have their weaponry, just not the kind that our soldiers get to use
I have my own view as to why non-military people really really want to have these kinds of weapons, but it is not a constructive opinion and for the sake of the really good conversations we have here, I'll keep it to myself.
Sure, but we have thousands of criminals in our society that haven't been convicted or caught yet. What of them? Background checks for people purchasing guns definitely need to be toughened up a lot. Want to own a gun? You need written recommendations. References. At the very least, the same requirements for adopting a dog should apply to gun ownership.
"...References. At the very least, the same requirements for adopting a dog should apply to gun ownership."
At least one of those references must be from Marty McFly or Dr. Emmett Brown Phd. to show you won't ever use the gun in the future to commit a crime.
Look, Rickey's not expecting a panel pre-cogs to fix things but at the very least, a note from the nice neighbor next door indicating that you don't poop on their front lawn and threaten their children would go a long way to weeding out some of the potential offenders.
I have my own view as to why non-military people really really want to have these kinds of weapons, but it is not a constructive opinion and for the sake of the really good conversations we have here, I'll keep it to myself.
Compensation for small genetalia? Considering that I have some military-style weapons, I am curious.
Steves:
Enlistment envy. ;)
I liked that part of the speech as well. I know some progressives who were bent out of shape about him "selling out" on the other side of those equations, but they are missing the point.
That POV is as close-minded as the opposition.
I hate to read people freaking out because Obama speaks nicely to religious folks in a language they can understand. As a progressive atheist it does not offend me in the least (as long as we maintain the church/state divide). Nor do I expect to hold Obama to some standard that requires him to kiss MY ass at the expense of what is frankly a much larger portion of the population. Many liberals do it all the fucking time.
When he goes into the lion's den and does that ridiculous evangelical Saddleback debate, it is no skin off my nose. Yet more lefty bloggers than I can count want Obama to repudiate that whole segment of the population.
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It is the same with this part of the speech. The enlightened view is that there ARE FUCKING DIFFERENT VIEWS! Trying to reach a common ground is the solution, not driving the wedge in further.
Steves:
Enlistment envy. ;)
Gotcha, I was all ready to get personally offended and indignant.
Seriously, if you hang out long enough with 'gun people,' you will run into keyboard commandos, wannabes, and mall ninjas. Fortunately, most of them aren't like that and are pretty decent people.
The problem with the military v. civilian arms is that, at least on the individual level, there is a great deal of overlap. The most popular sporting/hunting round is the .30-06, which was designed for the military.
The other problem is the Constitution which makes no distinction between military v. sporting. You can also make a strong argument that the second's primary purpose is 'bearing' military arms, as opposed to sporting arms. It sure has absolutely nothing to do with protecting hunting or target shooting.
Background checks, waiting periods, one gun a month limits, and other similar initiatives seem to have no statistical effect on lowering crime.
Mr. F, as a conservative, pragmatic, Christian, I can certainly respect other beliefs and non-beliefs (I am not sure this term makes sense). I agree that, for the most part, the church/state status quo is a good one and is beneficial to society.
you will run into keyboard commandos, wannabes, and mall ninjas
They chap my ass. I firmly believe that many neocons who got us into certain messes are part of this crowd.
The most popular sporting/hunting round is the .30-06
The Marines still use this for their sniper rifle (unlike the fucking Army, that uses that .50-calibre "sniper rifle" so they can be as far away from their target as possible. Pussies.).
no distinction between military v. sporting
In some cases, I'd say "sporting" rifles are superior to military rifles. But the M-16 is still one fine piece of gear. The M-4s lots of Bubbas are carrying in Iraq a pretty damn good as well.
Background checks, waiting periods, one gun a month limits, and other similar initiatives seem to have no statistical effect on lowering crime
Though I don't want to turn this into another 2nd amendment debate, I will say I agree. All they really do is make gun ownership a red-tape pain in the ass for law-abiding people. These laws don't deter criminals because, as a general rule, criminals are already not so concerned about following things like "the law."
That POV is as close-minded as the opposition
A-fucking-MEN. It is a POV that serves to actually hurt the progressive cause more than anaything. Geez guys, try a little harder to fit the "elitist" mold by railing hard against someone's personal religious beliefs.
I don't know about that part of the speech. I mean, we don't want a president who is reasonable or anything, do we?
As long as I am not getting lumped into the ass chappers
No.
we don't want a president who is reasonable or anything, do we
No.
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